has unleashed tears tragedy and of course through talk of gun control and gun laws from the weapon use the bushmaster rifle to big business let's talk about the reaction from wal-mart to wall street let's get to today's capital account. the price mechanism is something we often talk about on this show and the role central banks around the world play in distorting it whether through central banks or q we or through private banks manipulating live or without question markets are manipulated and prices distorted our next guest has been making the case for years that the precious metals markets are no exception you know it's

a tough one though because there isn't a smoking gun per se of libel or with gold though we may see the queen of england touring the bank of england's vaults as we did just recently and you see there what we don't get to see is transparent disclosure of the gold transactions of central banks in terms of their lease things wapping that sort of thing now though we may know of this see if he sees investigation into silver market manipulation it's been ongoing for years still with no result but here to discuss some of the latest developments in precious metals in light of what we do know are bill murphy and chris powell of the gold antitrust action committee better known as gap and they are together at the same desk in our studio which is just so exciting thanks so much for being here gentlemen good to be here alone it's great to have you so let's start with today gold and silver moving down not a lot of big news anything to see here. yeah actually it's been part of

a not an ambush attack by what we call the gold cartel for the past month they've been trading and when asian markets are thinly traded just about three weeks ago they had to call next twenty five dollars an ounce in one minute twenty four out of the last twenty six days and with access market comix pretty open they've taken the market down they slammed and today with the euro making seven month highs all of a sudden gold collapsed twenty five thirty dollars for no reason whatsoever the stock market was fun other commodity markets were fine it is ludicrous what they're doing what they're doing meaning what i mean based on they are animal spirits behind markets are hard to discern so how do we know what's going on one day or another when it comes to gold and silver well if i might say markets just don't trade like this for no reason four times within a month it's the consistency of what they're doing and that is so egregious it's blatant no one else can really explain why gold is going through these sudden waterfall drops and it's now and it's a reason for it i think it's because this physical cliff nonsense is going to end

pretty soon and when the dust clears nothing's going to be really done about our growing deficit our debts and so on so i want to take gold off the radar screen as much as possible as we go to barometer of u.s. financial market health and in your view clarify for our viewers who aren't familiar with gatto what you mean when you say gold cartel. well it's you know take a step press. the major investment houses of the bullion banks that are backstopped . of the world from central banks that are basically their masters in the gold market you know they can trade in the gold market. as long as they're doing what the central banks want them to and if they ever run short of gold the central banks are there to provide it if this is the case why is this anything to write home about i mean we hear about manipulation by high frequency traders using quote stuffing to make an extra buck we have central banks manipulating interest rates globally which our. so loosely impacts markets we have banks private banks across

the world that were manipulating libel or which obviously is a scandal but we see this so many different places why is this an area that you guys have focused so much of your attention on and are really concerned about you've made it your mission it's because it's the destruction of markets and it's the manipulation of the value of all capital labor and goods and services in the world what they are doing is is really to seize control of of everything economic in the world and really leave behind people's backs it's a centrally tyrannical system that's what we're trying to expose and you think that the precious metals is the key to that because why because the central banks themselves say so there is a an academic paper written about thirty years ago by lawrence summers who was then a professor of economics at harvard and robert parsky a professor of economics at the university of michigan explaining the relationship the traditional historic relationship between the gold price and interest rates

basically they found that the gold is the determinant of interest rates it's the determinant of the price of government bonds that's what the gold price suppression scheme really is about it's a it's a it's a mechanism of supporting government currencies of suppressing interest rates and supporting government bond prices and a little bit later i want to get into some more kind of the best facts or circumstantial evidence that exists that support that view first i want to talk a little bit though about silver because market manipulation is something that has been it's been being and but it's been investigated by that sea f.t.c. it's still ongoing since i had both of you gentlemen on my show last week have interviewed bart chilton the commissioner of the c f.t.c. if you kind of think of when you think of this silver investigation he stands by his belief that said that something that the law was broken and if the silver market has been manipulated let's take a listen. certainly there were no farias actions and i believe violations of the law mean when people send you e-mails and say the price of silver is going to be

smashed one day and then the next day it actually happens and when that happens repeatedly or maybe six out of eight or nine times. that leads you to question what's going on why do you think we haven't seen more progress and this investigation and do you think we will ever see this investigation have a result it's a government operation learn the c.f.d. so you cannot interfere with it i think they figured it out and this investigation will probably be resolved until the end of time or until the silver price breaks out nobody cares anymore based on what the when you say it's a government operation chris what is your best. and i mean i don't want to say smoking gun because i know that this is impossible to kind of calculate but but what is your best argument and you can you can go back to the coinage act in the united states that was signed by president johnson in one nine hundred sixty five

when he signed the coinage act removing solver from united states coinage he explicitly warned investors not to invest in silver because the united states the president would disordered from its strategic silver stockpile as necessary to keep the price of silver down now essential silver price suppression has been the united states government policy since that signing statement in one nine hundred sixty five i believe you can find that signing statement still at the presidential archives at the internet site of the university of california at santa barbara this is public policy silver is a currency it is more of a currency in history even than the gold is the united states government has a very distinct interest in the value of potentially competitive currencies ability you want to add something they look like you're trying to get in their hearts a great guy but he's want to get for in the end they come out if you choose trading commission he's done his best to try to get this issue exposed but he's got a lot of people that are against it j.p.

morgan is that the bank as chris said it's a government operation we know that there has been strong evidence presented against j.p. morgan and vetted by lawyers and bart knows just what it is but that they don't know what to do because if they ended the investigation because yes it's a government operation government operation to j.p. morgan we think the silver market's going to blow up due to the delivery problems in the months and years ahead what are they going to do when that happens if that occurs and they've said that oh that j.p. morgan has got thirty five percent of the short position and it blows up and then somewhat how down the road this occurs and they can't deliberate that's going to cause a major problem for them so they're in a dilemma you have to remember lauren the united states is. specifically authorized by the gold reserve act of one thousand nine hundred four to run what's called the exchange stabilization fund in the treasury department of the gold reserve act as amended allows the exchange stabilization fund to trade secretly in not only the

gold market but in any market without any accountability to any other officer the government some to the exclusive control the president the treasury secretary nobody goes to the treasury department every day and says could you tell me if the u.s. was active directly or indirectly in the markets today but the law says you can look it up it's on the treasury department's internet site the law authorizes the united states exchange stabilization fund to trade secretly in the gold market and any other market that the treasury secretary secretary decides he wants to get into but because we don't know exactly what's going on and because we don't know exactly what central banks are doing with their gold in terms of leasing and whatnot because it's all on one line item from what i understand the way they account for it there is a resistance to this discussion and i want to skip a couple questions guys in the control room to go to the sound bite i have a little further down from bloomberg where eric sprott a gentleman who i think you guys know because he cites your work we've had him on our show here he is on bloomberg talking about some recent work he had done in this

area was take a listen. i wrote an article recently. questioning whether the western central banks had any gold left and we simply do physical analysis of the people that are coming into the gold market the changes that have happened since two thousand you know as well as i know that this is part of the legend and the law or the gold business the gold bug business which is a distinct business from gold. you know but to a degree it smacks of a little bit of conspiracy theory and so he said you know so what else do you have to make people excited about. just wait us though ok i know your act but tell us why this is an important conversation to have despite the fact that we may not have . and we may only have so many samuel haven't we actually we do have a lot of proof in the last week disclosed what's probably our best proof yet this is a report to the executive board of the international monetary fund dated in march one

thousand nine hundred nine in which the staff of the i.m.f. explained that it was trying to develop new rules for reporting for central banks that would strengthen accountability the staff proposed requiring central banks to specify their gold swaps and gold loans so if you read the report you'll find that the staff surveyed the west and central banks and found that they freaked out when they saw that the i.m.f. was proposing to make them disclose their swaps and loans this information the central banks surveyed by the i.m.f. said it was extremely market sensitive and disclosure of it would interfere with central bank secret interventions in the currency markets this is a report it says not for public use obviously we discovered it a week ago it's posted on our internet site is that it is a confession it is a survey of all western central banks saying you can't make us disclose our swaps

and loans settle expose our currency market interventions and you know there is more from this too i want to get into after the break we're going to take a quick one we'll come back we'll talk more about the documents and have more with both of these gentlemen behind also still ahead more with the gentlemen and instagram some call it the website now find out how the photo sharing site might have to literally sold out and today's latest change but first the closing market numbers.

really. that's.

the really. ok before the break we were talking about gold silver evidence of manipulation in these markets and it's all with chris paul and bill murphy of data who have made this their work and interestingly when we talk about the issue of conspiracies we do have some actual conspiracies that how come out in finance first sample the libel rigging there is a headline the lie book is very see where the bank of england and whitehall in on it because of conversations and e-mails went back and forth that made it look like maybe there was some agreement that there should be going on during the financial

crisis between officials at central banks and the banks that were doing this or the people that were doing this but nonetheless we definitely know the bankers were rigging why bore the rate together and jon stewart actually summed up this whole notion perfectly. you know there are all these conspiracy theories about the world's financial system being controlled by six illuminati members in the basement of the vatican. actually just sixteen. and so now that we've had another settlement we just saw u.b.s. settle over live or and possibly we'll see arrests and dozens are evidently indicted in terms of the settlement or it's only been like so far it's not out at all well we'll see charges but the number of people involved so i just thought this was worth bringing up because actually bill you were talking about before the show how a number of these conspiracies have actually gone on and come out of the way more things are done than not and this is the reason the mainstream in the big powers namely marginalized people that discover conspiracies like this like libel or like

the you know the gold price suppression scheme because that's how they do their business so they try to mock people that bring this out i mean you don't even have to be in the financial world i look at that lance armstrong and his scandal with cycling this is just one guy who with his teammates and doctors and people kept going for seven years and of course you have a chance against what the guy did is great as he's done work on cancer and stuff i mean he was arrogant about it he said it wasn't the case well there was a conspiracy and actually that's pretty common. i want to get more into actual gold and what we know about central banks called holdings recently we've seen more gold we the bank of england we've seen we've seen the queen there they let this this professor and let's play a little to show our audience i've never seen so much in the season so much of any elements so we're standing here and. it's a ton of. which is worth thirty five million. sure it's worth

a lot but that they were central banks is we don't know how much of that is leased out on loan or there is caracas and not only that and the queen met with the british cabinet today the apparently the first british monarch to meet with her cabinet in seventeen eighty one and the videographer caught her exchange with the chancellor of the exchequer she remarks to. george osborne that you know she saw the gold at the bank of england the other day she adds regrettably not all the bars are ours. and more and replies well we you know we still have some that is the key question to whom does this gold belong how many competing claims are there to this gold we know the bank of england has been in the gold leasing business we know the bank for certain of national settlements is in the gold sales swaps leasing business you talk about conspiracies lauren when the when the board of the bank for international settlements which represents all the western central banks

holds its monthly meeting they don't call you and say we're having a meeting would you like to attend when the g ten gold and foreign exchange committee meets so committee of representatives of the treasuries of all the major western countries when they meet they don't post a notice they don't say would you like to attend conspiracies by definition these are secret meetings of of government people in a national government people where they may take action bearing on the gold market in the world economy now why is it so strange to call this a conspiracy when they themselves insist on the secrecy well because i mean it's fair but a lot goes on behind closed doors we don't know what the fat is you know doing necessarily what back on the scene minutes later and often times it's in fed's speak anyway so it are really exactly know it's going on but what do we know i guess for our audience when we're seeing may not know the role of leasing and the role of of lending on the part of central banks what role does. play it impacting

the price and getting the price where it was they only greenspan testified to congress in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight central banks stand ready to lead in increasing quantities should the price rise gold leasing is not what central banks sometimes pretend it is a way for them to make a little money on what they call a debt asset it is a mechanism of market control it's a mechanism of defeating a potentially competitive currency it's a mechanism of suppressing interest rates it's a mechanism of supporting government bond prices that is historic record larry summers who went from harvard to become treasury secretary the united states wrote a paper about this. what do we know as far as to what extent i know we don't know from central banks accounting how much are you saying what not that they have done or are doing but there is another i.m.f. document from ninety nine that you also your researchers found that does talk about

it right well this is interesting because this is how got this started back in one thousand nine hundred nine when this report was written and then discovered we said the gold loans were far bigger than the establishment said they were we said in my frank general so my old friend and colleague said they could be as high as eight thousand times the establishment left as they said it was all wrong this report alone in one thousand nine hundred and said that fifteen percent of the supposedly thirty two thousand tonnes was leased out or gone they've already been sent and sold in the physical marketplace and that's just what they counted so we were far more right just by this report than the establishment was of course when you tell about it they don't even respond they just go silent and i want to read we do have a passage of full screen the part of the i.m.f. report you cited chris when they were asked about more disclosure of gold and it says central bank officials indicated that they considered information and swaps to be highly market sensitive in view of the limited number of participants in such

transactions does they consider that the as. which is the disclosure reserve template should not require the separate disclosure of such information but should instead treat all monetary gold assets including gold on loan or subject to swap agreements as a single data item and that's really what you're talking about in terms of. exactly how they are meddling in the gold market because they're meddling in the gold market all the time as part of their general scheme of market intervention to support currencies support government bonds and suppress interest rates and gentlemen forgive me why should we care about an i.m.f. paper or two that came out that was from one nine hundred ninety nine because you can you can go to the central banks now lord and ask him hey is this true why can't we see your swaps in your leases what are you doing in the gold market a freelance writer in germany large. in these questions and of course he pretty much gets the door slammed in his face. all

you have to do is ask him specific questions in the scheme falls apart and quickly before we go guys i do have to ask about silver obviously not confirmed they. did should we be concerned about the impact of j.p. morgan. the. government will have big. communications with the treasury probably go jamie diamond said that he did the fed a favor wait yes

to. we will see maybe you'll do your end zone dance maybe go through that. covered the newtown tragedy the shooting at the elementary school which is horrible and in the wake of it we have seen a number of discussions about gun control gun laws if they should change what should change to avoid something like this happening again and also respecting the constitutional rights of americans have to bear arms here or a smattering of headlines but. business angle because we're seeing reaction from

wall street to wal-mart so demitri kerber. know its purpose capital it's a private equity firm anyway they announced it in freedom group which owns shares in bushmaster which is the maker of the rifle that was reportedly used in the shooting the company released a statement saying our role is to make investments on behalf of our clients who are comprised of the pension plans of firemen teachers policemen and other ministers workers unions endowments other institutions and individuals it's not a role to take positions or attempt to shape or influence the gun control policy debate that's the job of federal and state legislators there are however actions that we can take as a firm. obviously selling their stake as one of a wal-mart also decided to pull sales of bushmaster rifles from their website from online dick's sporting goods announced that out of respect for the victims they

remove guns from sales near newtown. let's step back what do you make of these announcements. when you think about the specific point the guns off. this is always like there's a political issue. this always happens every time there's a shooting i don't think the real problem we have is that people have guns obviously i don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to have assault rifles i mean why don't know why you need those things and i'm not making a judgment on whether there's we should have been allowed to have guns or not but a larger point is i think it's pretty obvious that this is ideas a whole is not very mature there lust for weapons explosions destruction and murder well i think there's a huge problem in this country with guns when it's interesting to where it trickles into because one private equity group equity group is selling their stake deal book did an article about a number of others that are invested in gun makers i mean this is a business opportunity for people in general you know what kind of

a culture is it where you can just go through wal-mart buy. or dick's sporting goods i mean that just shows the extent to which it is normal i don't say it's incredibly hypocritical in this country because the state has a monopoly on violence and exercise it with such reckless abandonment and we have drones flying over our heads so i think it's a crapshoot every way every which way i don't think the government's very responsible mature with weapons either it's a giant kill zone where the other so i just think that you know it's whenever these shootings happen that enters the nature of should be the obsession with violence and wildlife should be covered in totality of this guy in a way that serious about what that obsession means more than when it's just had a tragic time we're going to have to leave it there we didn't get to instagram but go check out what they're doing because your image is not proprietary and that's all we have time for thank you so much for watching be sure to come back tomorrow in the meantime you know you can follow me on twitter like our facebook page watch us on you tube hulu and have a great night. technology

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